Curse

User Name · Sep 23, 2005, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by KallDrexx

Not disagreeing with that. But as a WHOLE an interruption build shouldn't do as much damage or more then a high damage build.

then yes. I completely agree. A damage build should do more damage than an interupt build. But the only ways to fix this without killing interupt rangers(rangers using the skills as interupts and not as damage dealers) would be to fix the skills to only do damage when the opponent is casting/using a skill or by having the skills ignore the preperation. I prefer the latter over the former as I'd hate to miss the interupt and then see a big -0 because my attack did no damage.

MSecorsky · Sep 23, 2005, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by KallDrexx

Dont' bring reality into this. Otherwise anytime you would hit someone with anything they would be interrupted and this game would be as retarded for casters as DAOC is. GW is not real life.

Some semblance of "reality" needs to be considered for things to simply make sense. Why don't all attacks interrupt? Spell casters are trained to focus through most distractions and finish the spell, which is why it takes special skills to actually interrupt a casting. There is always a degree of logic that can be added to even games.

KallDrexx · Sep 23, 2005, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by User Name

then yes. I completely agree. A damage build should do more damage than an interupt build. But the only ways to fix this without killing interupt rangers(rangers using the skills as interupts and not as damage dealers) would be to fix the skills to only do damage when the opponent is casting/using a skill or by having the skills ignore the preperation. I prefer the latter over the former as I'd hate to miss the interupt and then see a big -0 because my attack did no damage.

And thats what this discussion is for

We should try and find a way to nerf the damage on interrupt rangers at least without killing the class.

FrogDevourer · Sep 23, 2005, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by User Name

...as it's quite obvious that "Leech Signet" is unbalanced.

I surrender. I can't grasp your logic. Would you please be so kind as to explain why Leech Signet is not balanced?

MSecorsky · Sep 23, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by KallDrexx

And thats what this discussion is for

We should try and find a way to nerf the damage on interrupt rangers at least without killing the class.

Well if that's all then it's simple. Again, let's add a taste of that "reality" thing.

Not every shot is perfect, give interrupts a (high) percent chance to actually do the interrupting, maybe tied to expertise. Leave the damage alone.

Acan Vishnu · Sep 23, 2005, 03:07 PM // 15:07

In fact Distracting Shot limits the amount of damage that can be done by the arrow itself (This is also true of Concussion Shot, but thats only moderately relevent to the discussion). With that in mind I can say with a fair amount of certainty that it was not designed to be in a high damage build. However, because it can be used to circumvent your bow's cooldown and still gains the bonuses of preperations and such... Well, the combo just gets better and better.

KallDrexx · Sep 23, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Some semblance of "reality" needs to be considered for things to simply make sense. Why don't all attacks interrupt? Spell casters are trained to focus through most distractions and finish the spell, which is why it takes special skills to actually interrupt a casting. There is always a degree of logic that can be added to even games.

Quote:

Not if you think about it a moment. Rangers dong interrupts are hitting someone with an arrow and doing enough damage to completely disrupt their concentration in attempting to cast a spell. This is common sense. Interrupts are adding that extra oomph to do more of a job than your basic arrow.

Your two posts contradict each other. There are skills which do MUCH more damage then rangers in the game (not on rangers) but they don't interrupt people. Doing damage has no correlation with interruption in this game, plain and simple.

The point is that that the special skills that interrupt do more damage then the special skills and builds that are meant to do more damage. That is the problem. Yes things need to make sense but saying that it makes sense that rangers can do damage and interruption because high damage disrupts concentration means you'd have to start making a LOT of skills interrupt.

Tactical-Dillusions · Sep 23, 2005, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by User Name

Tactical: if that's the way ArenaNet intended it to be they should have removed every other ranger skill in the game...as you'd be a fool to use anything other than Punishing + Savage + Distracting + Preperation..you're doing the most DPS a ranger can do in the least amount of time AND interupting almost all actions..

Personally i prefer melandru's arrows, penetrating attack, favourable winds and my sundering bow.

For an extra kick i could add judges insight but i haven't actually tried that addition.
The extra DOT gets my thumbs up and enemy enchantments just boost your damage further. With maxed out marksmanship, i found it very effective.

Like i said, i don't play PvP much so from now on i will just observe this thread. At least i have voiced my opinion

User Name · Sep 23, 2005, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

I surrender. I can't grasp your logic. Would you please be so kind as to explain why Leech Signet is not balanced?

ya..I can't grasp my logic anymore either. Leech signet isn't unbalanced I meant the Hypothetical skill that Leech Signet is supposed to be countering. Forgive my mistake.

MSecorsky · Sep 23, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by KallDrexx

Your two posts contradict each other. There are skills which do MUCH more damage then rangers in the game (not on rangers) but they don't interrupt people. Doing damage has no correlation with interruption in this game, plain and simple.

The point is that that the special skills that interrupt do more damage then the special skills and builds that are meant to do more damage. That is the problem. Yes things need to make sense but saying that it makes sense that rangers can do damage and interruption because high damage disrupts concentration means you'd have to start making a LOT of skills interrupt.

Greater damage meaning focused damage, damage with the intent to disrupt the mind of the caster. Mesmers get into casters heads the same way, only without the need to do more physical damage to do so. Again, consider casters as being trained to cast through most anything; to endure the pain and still focus. You need that something extra to break that training. For rangers, it takes extra damage. Elementalists drop things from the sky onto (other) casters heads.

KallDrexx · Sep 23, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Well if that's all then it's simple. Again, let's add a taste of that "reality" thing.

Not every shot is perfect, give interrupts a (high) percent chance to actually do the interrupting, maybe tied to expertise. Leave the damage alone.

Lets not add reality. Reality is not balanced and not fun. Balance means when you give something an advantage, there must be a disadvantage to it. The fact that the interrupt build gives a major advantage (interruptions) to regular damage builds means that it should have some disadvantage. Right now it does the damage of regular damage builds (at least) but it also interrupts almost every shot. Thats imbalancing and makes it pointless to go for a damage build (not counting traps here).

THAT is the core of the problem and that is the issue you still have not responded to.

MSecorsky · Sep 23, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by KallDrexx

Lets not add reality. Reality is not balanced and not fun. Balance means when you give something an advantage, there must be a disadvantage to it. The fact that the interrupt build gives a major advantage (interruptions) to regular damage builds means that it should have some disadvantage. Right now it does the damage of regular damage builds (at least) but it also interrupts almost every shot. Thats imbalancing and makes it pointless to go for a damage build (not counting traps here).

THAT is the core of the problem and that is the issue you still have not responded to.

OK then, here you go with a touch of your beloved "reality" again.

Distracting Shot - Bow Attack
If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1-13 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.

Concussion Shot - Bow Attack
If Concussion shot hits while target foe is casting a spell, the spell is interrupted and your target is Dazed for 5-17 seconds. This attack deals only 1-13 damage.

Punishing Shot {Elite} - Bow Attack
If Punishing Shot hits, you strike for +10-18 damage and your target is interrupted

Savage Shot - Bow Attack
If Savage Shot hits, your target's action is interrupted. If that action was a spell, you strike for 13-25 damage

Notice that two of the four disrupting shots do reduced damage, which is already rediculous, and savage only gives you extra if you catch them using a spell. Perhaps I missed something, but with the same enchantments it appears to me that "damage" shots do a bit more damage than interrupts.

Shinsei · Sep 23, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Perhaps I missed something, but with the same enchantments it appears to me that "damage" shots do a bit more damage than interrupts.

Here's a hint: attack speed. Notice how the interrupts are significantly faster? That's where the damage is at.

Mhydrian · Sep 23, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

The op is just off. Rangers can shut down one caster whoopidee doo. I suppose there should be NO effective counters to casters in this game. Yet the ease at which casters can shut down and destroy a tank is perfectly fine. An anti-tank build caster will destroy a tank with such ease. Yet no ranger can do this to a caster that well.

Shinsei · Sep 23, 2005, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mhydrian

The op is just off. Rangers can shut down one caster whoopidee doo. I suppose there should be NO effective counters to casters in this game. Yet the ease at which casters can shut down and destroy a tank is perfectly fine. An anti-tank build caster will destroy a tank with such ease. Yet no ranger can do this to a caster that well.

New abbreviation: RTFT (Read The F'ing Thread)

It's not about the interruption, that's fine and should stay. It's about the fact that the damage surpasses any ranger attempting to use damage skills.

SwizzlestickSiren · Sep 23, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

Conclusion: The current interruption spike is slightly overpowered damage-wise, as it allows for more damage to be dealt in a shorter period of time as opposed to the ranger skills that are devoted to do damage. The fix to this would be by changing Punishing Shot, Savage Shot and Distracting Shot to ignore (not cancel) any current preperation bonuses. Interrupts are still there and as good as they currently are, however the damage isn't, which means these rangers are no longer killing people, but tactically interrupting them, as they were meant to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalldrexx

Can someone PLEASE explain why interrupts should 1) be spammable and 2) do more damage then regular ranger builds. PLEASE

Rangers are supposed to be versatile, quick, and agile, hence their quicker recharge times for interrupts and the area of expertise. I would understand if skills like barrage didn't cancel all current preparation. But rangers are just fine. And I don't see anything wrong with rangers being able to interrupt while dealing damage. I mean, c'mon, if you think logically, an actual real-life archer shooting at someone would both be distracting and damaging...

User Name · Sep 23, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwizzlestickSiren

Rangers are supposed to be versatile, quick, and agile, hence their quicker recharge times for interrupts and the area of expertise. I would understand if skills like barrage didn't cancel all current preparation. But rangers are just fine. And I don't see anything wrong with rangers being able to interrupt while dealing damage. I mean, c'mon, if you think logically, an actual real-life archer shooting at someone would both be distracting and damaging...

In real life I make 10x the income you make. That is not balanced...that is real life. real life is not balanced, The GAME needs to be balanced...not real.

SwizzlestickSiren · Sep 23, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

One of the designers' main goals is for this game to be very balanced, and I think they did a great job with that. In no way am I saying that the game should emulate reality, since obviously there aren't casters in reality and such, but to me, it's just a given that an arrow is going to be distracting and damaging at the same time.

KallDrexx · Sep 23, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwizzlestickSiren

One of the designers' main goals is for this game to be very balanced, and I think they did a great job with that. In no way am I saying that the game should emulate reality, since obviously there aren't casters in reality and such, but to me, it's just a given that an arrow is going to be distracting and damaging at the same time.

No it's not. In real life if I casted a fireball at you, you would be distracted, be on fire, burning and would die.

STOP EQUATING REAL LIFE TO A GAME. The game in NO WAY mimicks real life situations and yo ucan't apply real life logic to here.

Rey Lentless · Sep 23, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Preps shouldn't hit if the arrows don't first of all.

I don't like that the dps on the interupts is better than the supposed damage skills either. Perhaps having preps not affect the interupt attacks would fix that.

Or better yet, add an 'aftercast' which is dependent on bow type/tiger's/etc so the 1/2 is just the time to get off the interupt, but the normal time (another 1.5 sec or whatever) between shots is still there. Right now, the dps is much greater on the interupts because you can chain 4 of them together in the same time you could fire one normal damage attack. While a few of them have reduced damage, they still carry the prep damage and the dps is far greater on an interupt string than a damage skill chain.. and that's not right.